[Kim Daesik & Kim Hyeyeon's AHA] "The Boundary Between Humans and AI Has Already Blurred... It's Just That Humans Can't Accept It"

⑪Choi Jinseok, Emeritus Professor at Sogang University

Editor's NoteAsia Economy has decided to explore the changes that the rapidly advancing generative AI will bring to the field of artistic creation, and what 'humans' need to contemplate, from the perspectives of engineers and artists. Accordingly, we have established a monthly column where Professor Kim Dae-sik of KAIST's Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon (CEO of Yeonist) engage in dialogues with artists or discuss works. The title 'AHA' in the column stands for 'AI, Human & Art'. Through Professor Kim Dae-sik, who passionately explores the future of generative AI, and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon, who boldly integrates generative AI with dance, we hope you will take a step closer to the profound themes of AI, humans, and art.

Professor Choi Jin-seok, Honorary Professor at Sogang University, is interviewing with Professor Kim Dae-sik and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon at a cafe in Seongsu-dong, Seongdong-gu, Seoul. Photo by Heo Young-han

Explaining cutting-edge artificial intelligence (AI) cannot be done by algorithms alone. The evolution of AI is also a collection and result of thoughts and philosophies that someone has already had. To understand AI and foresee the AI era, philosophical thinking and insight that transcend the times are necessary. Professor Choi Jin-seok, Emeritus Professor at Sogang University, who has studied Eastern philosophy throughout his life and reinterpreted Korean society, offers another interpretation and insight in the AI era. He explains how a balanced worldview of humans and machines can serve as a compass in front of the new maze called AI. We met Professor Choi on the 7th at BOTBOTBOT, a unique space in Seongsu-dong where AI robots make coffee and people dance.

-You are engaged in various activities as a philosopher. Please introduce your philosophical journey and current projects.

▲I graduated from the Department of Philosophy at Sogang University and established and operate Geonmyeongwon and Saemal Saemomjit Basic School. I believe our society has reached a limit where it is difficult to develop further with existing methods. Therefore, the name 'Saemal Saemomjit' was given to signify the need for new thinking and actions. As the name suggests, Saemal Saemomjit is not just a new form of education but an attempt to solve the social and philosophical challenges we face. Through this activity, I aim to nurture talents and create an environment where they can become the main actors of the future. The future we want is not opened by time but only by talents. Therefore, I am currently focusing on talent cultivation.

-If you compare Korean society to a patient from a philosophical perspective, what illness do you think it suffers from?

▲Our society has now reached the limits of thinking. Civilization is essentially the result of human thought realized. The height of civilization is determined by the level of thinking, and currently, our thinking is trapped within its limits. To compare it to the animal world, it is like creatures trapped in limits, imitating each other and repeating stagnation. In such a state, when a new predator appears, they helplessly collapse or disappear. The political structure of our country clearly shows this. For a long time, it has remained in a state of hostile coexistence, like animals mimicking each other, unable to create fundamental change. Today, it is difficult to even distinguish political statements by which camp they come from, as thinking and imagination have been depleted. The prolonged hostile coexistence stagnates the nation's thinking system and imagination, preventing the search for new possibilities.

Professor Choi Jin-seok, Honorary Professor at Sogang University, is interviewing Professor Kim Dae-sik and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon. Photo by Heo Young-han

-The new wave called AI is approaching frighteningly fast. What impact will AI have on us?

▲The fate of a country depends on how it accepts and responds to the great flow that runs through the era. For example, when the Industrial Revolution first started in Britain and generated enormous productivity, its aftermath spread to other countries, giving birth to imperialism. This flow also affected Joseon, during which time Dasan Jeong Yak-yong lived. Dasan said insightfully about Joseon's reality at the time, 'There is not a single hair on this country that is not rotten. Only after it collapses will people realize this.' This prediction led to the Japan-Korea Annexation 74 years later.

I structurally connect the current Fourth Industrial Revolution, especially the emergence of AI, with the Industrial Revolution of the past. Just as Dasan pointed out Joseon's limits, I also see that South Korea has reached its limits now. The problem is that the technological change we face now is a much faster civilizational transition in terms of speed. Compared to the Industrial Revolution era, if we misperceive the situation and fail to respond appropriately, the speed of decline will be much faster. This is not a mere metaphor but a concern that if we do not take extraordinary measures and bold attempts, it could become reality. Now is not a time for simple corrections and supplements but for fundamental directional changes and structural responses.

Professor Choi Jin-seok, Honorary Professor at Sogang University, is interviewing Professor Kim Dae-sik and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon. Photo by Heo Young-han

About Professor Choi Jin-seok

He is Emeritus Professor of Philosophy at Sogang University, actively engaged in lectures and writings that contain wisdom of life and humanistic insights. He completed his bachelor's and master's degrees in philosophy at Sogang University, studied at Heilongjiang University in China, and earned a Ph.D. in philosophy from Peking University. He served as the founding director of Geonmyeongwon, which aimed to cultivate 21st-century convergent talents. Currently, he is the principal of Saemal Saemomjit Basic School, which he founded in his hometown Hampyeong, nurturing future generations. His books include "Who Am I," "Abandon That and This," "Patterns Drawn by Humans," "Reading Tao Te Ching Alone," and "The One Who Crosses."

-Why do we fail to learn from history and repeat the same mistakes?

▲It is not simply a matter of memory or effort. It is because Korea has never had the experience of taking the initiative in history. Having the initiative does not just mean leading oneself but having the ability to proactively shape the flow of history and set directions. However, we have lived in a subordinate position for a long time.

During Joseon's 500 years, we were a subordinate country in the international order, and later, under Japanese rule, this experience of subordination deepened. Today, although it is not as clear-cut as before, we still follow global trends and try to succeed within them. In this process, the importance of initiative has not been widely recognized, and rather, the idea that 'we live well without initiative' has taken root.

This situation leads to fear of having the initiative. I call this fear 'intellectual laziness.' People often say, "Being comfortable is the best." To have the initiative, one must create new paths and be required to think anew and make creative efforts. This involves much greater burdens and responsibilities than following others' flows. Therefore, many people have become accustomed to imitating and following, feeling that it is safer.

However, this approach makes it difficult to achieve true leaps and sustainable growth. Our world is composed of knowledge, and in this regard, we might be considered knowledge importers rather than producers. For those of us who have never had the experience of taking initiative, it is time to thoroughly recognize why it is important and what we lose without it. We must not merely survive in history but become a country that shapes the direction of history. To do so, each of us needs our own prescription derived from 'intellectual diligence.'

Professor Choi Jin-seok, Honorary Professor at Sogang University, is interviewing Professor Kim Dae-sik and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon. Photo by Heo Young-han

-So-called 'K-content' seems to be enjoying a golden age of Korean culture. But is this sustainable? What should be done to ensure that?

▲The biggest problem our society faces is the attitude of focusing only on 'function' rather than essence. People dream of jobs like journalists, prosecutors, or judges, but these are not dreams themselves but small stepping stones to realize one's dream. True dreams arise from a calling to solve fundamental problems. For example, a vision like 'to set the order of words right.' However, we avoid such essential concerns and fall into intellectual laziness and lack of imagination. As a result, society has prospered functionally but has not evolved in fundamental areas like setting the order of words or law. Korea achieved democratization and remarkable development but failed to set new agendas afterward because democratization had existing models to follow, but to become a leading country, we must set our own agendas.

Ultimately, our prosperity was built on an unstable foundation, and now we need a 'framework of thought,' that is, proper education to firmly support it. The ultimate purpose of education, from the perspective of knowledge, is not so much to teach what to know but to cultivate the desire to know. This should be the core. The current rote learning method loses its intention and only inputs knowledge, so in this regard, our society's high educational enthusiasm is better described as high score enthusiasm. Even now, a consensus on education unique to Korea should be reached through an educational system structured around essential values.

Professor Choi Jin-seok, Honorary Professor at Sogang University, is interviewing Professor Kim Dae-sik and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon. Photo by Heo Young-han

-In an era where Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) that surpasses humans may appear, how can Eastern philosophy view the relationship between humans and machines differently from Western philosophy?

▲Although I am classified as an 'Eastern philosopher,' I consider myself simply a 'philosopher' who develops thought using Eastern materials. This is also included in my upcoming book on Zhuangzi. Today, with the Fourth Industrial Revolution, AI, AGI, civilization is changing at an astonishing speed. The biggest features are increased speed and the collapse of all identities. In this process, the boundary between humans and machines is becoming blurred. It is already common knowledge that both are composed of electrons, and machines have not yet acquired 'skin,' but technically, it is entirely possible. In an era where biological and physical barriers are breaking down, dividing humans and machines dichotomously becomes increasingly meaningless. Therefore, it is time to rediscover 'humans' as constantly changing beings and to contemplate how to accept and interpret the newly born civilization.

-In this era where the criteria for viewing humans have changed, how should Eastern philosophy change and seek new directions?

▲Everything will change. I see the changes brought by AI not as mere technological changes but ontological changes. That is, the way knowledge is produced has changed. When the way knowledge is produced changes, everything changes?from how humans are viewed to how the world is understood and responded to. The problem is that although this change has already begun, Koreans have not accepted AI as 'their life.' They try to understand 'what AI is' from a distance but have not reached the emotional contact stage to actively utilize it. Therefore, we fail to nurture talents who will lead the new era, and the risk of falling behind those adapted to AI may come much sooner. This is also related to intellectual laziness.

The important thing is to focus on discussions and actions we can take here and now. We must find realistic solutions suitable for us within the great flow of AI. Fortunately, we do not need to create everything anew. We can start by gathering existing technology, knowledge, and capabilities well and immersing ourselves 'emotionally' to utilize them. In short, rather than worrying whether AI will completely replace humans, we must remember that the possibility that 'people who truly accept AI as their own and use it well will replace those who do not' is much greater and more urgent. What we need is an active response that goes beyond 'just understanding' to 'actively utilizing' and 'cultivating talents.' Whether we are ready to unfold a new world with AI will be the battleground ahead.

Professor Choi Jin-seok, Honorary Professor at Sogang University, is interviewing Professor Kim Dae-sik and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon. Photo by Heo Young-han

-What message would you like to convey to the younger generation?

▲I want to tell them to have an 'attitude of curiosity about themselves.' The reason this huge change we are experiencing feels unfamiliar is that we have no 'memory of adaptation' itself. Looking at the Opium War, which can be seen as the East's complete defeat by the West historically, the fundamental cause was a lack of 'abstract thinking,' that is, philosophy and science. In other words, there was a lack of exploratory spirit and myths filled with great imagination.

In Western culture, there was the profession of explorer, abstract thinking like geometry developed, and myths overflowing with imagination that might seem absurd. But the East lacked these relatively, so it fell behind in the 'power to dream.' Therefore, if we want to properly adapt to the new era, we must first exert intellectual diligence to constantly explore and write our own myths.

However, to create such myths, above all, we need questions that make us curious about ourselves. We must ask ourselves, 'Who am I, what do I want, how do I want to live this short life, and ultimately, what kind of person do I want to become?' In this process, there comes a moment when the 'explaining self' and the 'self listening to the explanation' merge into one, and at that moment, tears may come or the heart may swell. I call this the 'divine state,' and that point is the starting point of writing one's own myth. Even if the Earth were to perish tomorrow, seriously delving into this 'curiosity about oneself' is a challenge truly needed in our society now. Especially to those in their twenties, I strongly recommend this 'most important task' that they have hardly done so far.

Professor Kim Dae-sik, Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, KAIST

Choreographer Kim Hye-yeon (CEO of Yeonist)

This content was produced with the assistance of AI translation services.