Park Wonseok: "Kim Eojun Has Crossed the Line, Lee Eonju Must Show Restraint," Lee Taegyu: "The Indictment-Cancellation Group Is Undemocratic and Anti-Democratic" [Current Affairs Show]

■ Broadcast: The Asia Business Daily "So Jongsup's Current Affairs Show" (Mon-Fri, 4-5 p.m.)

■ Host: Political specialist So Jongsup ■ Producer: PD Ma Yena

■ Guests: Former lawmaker Park Wonseok, former lawmaker Lee Taegyu (February 23)

※ When citing any part of this article, please make sure to credit "So Jongsup's Current Affairs Show."

So Jongsup: Hello, everyone. This is So Jongsup's Current Affairs Show. Today, we have with us former People Power Party lawmaker Lee Taegyu and former Justice Party lawmaker Park Wonseok for a vivid talk on hot issues. Thank you both for coming. According to the Realmeter poll reported today, President Lee Jaemyung's approval rating has risen for four consecutive weeks, reaching 58.2%, and the gap in party support between the Democratic Party and the People Power Party has widened further.

Park Wonseok: I think the public has the impression that the president is working hard, doing a good job, and has a good grasp of key state affairs. The live broadcasts of cabinet meetings and work briefings seem to be having a certain effect, and if you look at the issues he points out and the instructions he gives in those live-broadcast meetings, they are very specific. That appears to give the public a sense of stability.

On top of that, the base effect from the previous administration is huge. The public has various concerns and criticisms about the chaotic state governance under the previous government, and compared with that, the president seems to be working hard, doing a good job, and understanding current state affairs in considerable detail. I also think there was significant anxiety at first in terms of diplomacy and security. But since taking office, through several summits, the president has shown an unexpectedly stable demeanor. That seems to give the public a strong sense of satisfaction. And another factor is a kind of windfall gain. Because the opposition is in such disarray, it makes the president's governance stand out even more. I think those aspects are being reflected across the board.

Former lawmaker Park Wonseok (right) and former lawmaker Lee Taegyu appeared on The Asia Business Daily's 'So Jongsup's Current Affairs Show' on the 23rd. Photo by Heo Yeonghan

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So Jongsup: How do you see it, Mr. Lee? Your outlook?

Lee Taegyu: I believe there are three fundamental pillars for assessing President Lee Jaemyung's job approval. One is the Yoon Sukyeol base effect. The feeling that he cannot possibly do worse than Yoon Sukyeol. The second is that he is working hard, and the third is the Lee Jaemyung base effect. When he was a candidate, including the Daejang-dong issue, his unfavorable rating and the level of distrust toward him were extremely high. In fact, it is accurate to say that he was elected president as a rebound effect from the impeachment of the president through the coup. But he is performing better than expected and, in areas such as tariff negotiations and various diplomatic and security issues, he is steering things without major mishaps.

Lastly, again, there is a windfall effect. As a force of checks and as an alternative force, the People Power Party is currently mired in the quagmire of the coup and just floundering, isn't it? Because trust in them as an alternative and as a check is so low, I think that is being reflected relatively in the president's job approval.

Right now, the People Power Party is going through internal strife over how to sever ties with Yoon Sukyeol and how to put an end to "Yoon-again."I see resolving the issues of martial law, impeachment, and the coup as the fundamental contradiction the People Power Party faces today, and if they fail to resolve this basic contradiction, there is virtually no chance for the party to rise. So, regardless of whether the president does well or not, I think there is a high possibility that his stable job approval will continue for the time being.

Former lawmaker Lee Taegyu predicted that President Lee's approval rating is likely to remain stable for the time being.

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So Jongsup: President Lee Jaemyung shared Seongdong-gu Mayor Jeong Wonoh's social media post, then he also made Representative Jeon Jaesoo's post public, and this time he shared Representative Park Chan-dae's post on social media.

Lee Taegyu: I see it as a calculation to push people who will do politics with him and who understand his governing philosophy well, to give them nominations, and thereby tighten his grip on the party and strengthen his control over state affairs. From the standpoint of a president who holds the hegemony early in his term, I think, based on a commonsense political judgment, there is no other choice but to move in that direction. However, even so, when the president steps in and stirs up the party sentiment, it has the effect of distorting that sentiment. I see that as running counter to intra-party democracy, and the president ultimately has to be the president of all party members, but there is also the risk that he could be reduced to the head of a single faction.

He is now backing four people: Jeong Wonoh, Park Chan-dae, Han Junho, and Jeon Jaesoo. If one of them fails to win, the president will suffer political damage or injury. He clearly intends to form the next-generation group he wants, and he also clearly intends to tighten his grip on the party and strengthen his control over state affairs.

So Jongsup: Some call this "boosting the Myung-shim (pro-Lee core)." Isn't there also political risk?

Park Wonseok: If he walks a fine line, I think it is acceptable, but if he crosses that line and goes too far, you get the effect of "too much is as bad as too little."In the case of the Seoul mayoral race, I do not think this is about boosting someone with an eye on internal party competition. Rather, under the strategic goal of absolutely taking back Seoul, it seems they have singled out and elevated a candidate who can beat District Mayor Jeong Wonoh, and that is working to some extent. In Busan, in fact, there is no candidate other than Representative Jeon Jaesoo. Various figures show that his competitiveness is quite high, so I see the president as giving him a discreet boost, and the situation in the Incheon mayoral race is similar.

The Gyeonggi governor race is a bit different. The plaque of appreciation for the special envoy trip was posted on social media by Representative Han Junho, and that is how we found out; the president did not post it himself. That race could be risky. Because Representative Choo Mi-ae also shows considerable competitiveness, and the incumbent governor is from the Democratic Party. The possible scenarios are different. If the president throws his weight behind one side, that really becomes a source of internal party conflict.

So Jongsup: We have what is known as President Lee Jaemyung's representative fan cafe, "Jaemyinge Ma-eul (Jaemyung's Village)." There, through a vote, they simply expelled Party Leader Jeong Cheongrae and Supreme Council member Lee Sungyoon. Representative Park, what is going on inside the ruling camp right now?

Former lawmaker Park Wonseok criticized, saying, "A loyalty competition is underway within the ruling party," and "Events that should not be happening are occurring at an inappropriate time."

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Park Wonseok: So I went in there myself. Since they said the two were expelled, I wanted to see how many cafe members actually wanted this, and it turned out only 1,200 people voted.The cafe has 200,000 members, and they expelled them on the grounds that 80% of those 1,200 voted in favor. This is what we have been criticizing as the problem with so-called fandom politics, where hardline fandoms run wild and the tail wags the dog.

This also crossed my mind: they brought it on themselves. Party Leader Jeong Cheongrae himself once said that the Ddanzi Ilbo message board was the barometer of public sentiment. But the Ddanzi Ilbo message board has now, in a way, become a community standing on the opposite side in the merger with the Cho Kuk Innovation Party and in the process of recommending special prosecutor candidates. He has now been rejected by Jaemyung's Village. The Democratic Party is no longer an opposition party challenging power; it is the ruling party, and a huge ruling party at that, and this is a government that came after the coup, so this is extremely important. Yet if they still behave as if they were an opposition party, I think that is unacceptable. I hope this will serve as an occasion for serious self-reflection within the Democratic Party. The president's term is only eight months old, yet inside the party, the pro-Myung and non-Myung factions are fighting like gangs, and that is a kind of loyalty competition.

The friction during the integration process with the Cho Kuk Innovation Party, and on top of that, the nomination battles for the next general election and the competition for the next presidency are all erupting at once, while the front against the opposition is relatively quiet. When the opposition is weak, this is what always happens. Such is the nature of power: when the external front quiets down, they fight internally. This is a classic case of power shrinking inward. Events that should not be happening are occurring at an inappropriate time.

Lee Taegyu: Internal strife and infighting in the ruling party so early in a presidential term, in my view, are factors that can cause instability in state affairs, so from the president's standpoint, this is highly undesirable. I believe he will try to contain it somehow. Because what president would want the party to split into rival camps and fight when he needs to focus on state affairs with selectivity and concentration? Even if such infighting appears to favor the pro-Lee Jaemyung camp, that does not help the president.

Park Wonseok: But I think they need to come to their senses because people outside the party have too much sway over it. That includes Kim Eojun and former minister Rhyu Si-min. None of them are party members. In Kim Eojun's case, he used to be a very meaningful and major helper, but now he is trying to become the architect himself. That is crossing the line. I think the criticism of Kim is only natural. At the same time, some of those calling themselves the "New Lee Jaemyung" camp, who have come over from the conservative side or are newly joining the support base, are pushing for centrist expansion and pragmatism under the banner of inclusive politics, yet they are themselves engaging in divisive politics. They also need to exercise restraint. Someone like lawmaker Lee Eonju needs to exercise restraint.

Former lawmaker Park said, "Kim Eojun and lawmaker Lee Eonju should exercise restraint," and former lawmaker Lee criticized, saying, "The opposition is not doing its job, so the ruling party has no sense of crisis." Reporter Heo Yeonghan

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So Jongsup: A common thread in what both of you are saying is that the ruling camp needs to exercise restraint and project stability.

Lee Taegyu: To add one point, I cannot overlook the problem of the opposition. Because the opposition is not strong, both the Democratic Party and the presidential office seem to lack tension and a sense of crisis about the success and preservation of the administration. If they had a sense of crisis and tension, it would be difficult to present this kind of behavior to the public. I get the impression that the Lee Jaemyung administration and the Democratic Party are relying excessively on the coup effect to manage the political situation. But the coup effect is not a card that can be used forever without limit. The opposition must do better, but at some point, when the opposition finds its footing and starts fulfilling its role, the Democratic Party will have to ask itself whether it can really steer the political situation properly while behaving as it is now. That kind of reflection is necessary.

So Jongsup: A group called "Lawmakers' Group to Promote the Withdrawal of the Indictment Against President Lee Jaemyung and a Parliamentary Investigation" has been launched, with 105 Democratic Party lawmakers participating. What do you make of this?

Lee Taegyu: When it comes to President Lee Jaemyung's trial, the proper course is to leave it to the judiciary. If he feels wronged, he can appeal, and ultimately it can go all the way to the Supreme Court. But what they are doing is using the power of the administration to pressure the judiciary into withdrawing the indictment or securing some other favorable outcome, isn't it? Is that really appropriate in a democratic country? I believe this group pushing for the withdrawal of the indictment deserves strong criticism. If, after his term ends, President Lee Jaemyung faces trial and a conviction looks certain but he truly does not want to go to prison, then he should simply perform well as president.

If he becomes a truly successful president and finishes his term, then even if a guilty verdict is handed down, public opinion may form asking whether a president who worked so hard really must go to prison, and that public sentiment could be taken into account in sentencing. That is the proper path in a democracy. But if they try to neutralize the process through the power of the administration by changing the law, increasing the number of Supreme Court justices, and introducing a constitutional complaint system for trials, that, I believe, undermines democracy. More than 100 lawmakers gathering to neutralize the trial of a single president? There is no act more undemocratic and anti-democratic than this.

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So Jongsup: Yet more than 60% of Democratic Party lawmakers are participating in this group.

Park Wonseok: I think there are two aspects. One is the political background. Although they are putting the withdrawal of the indictment at the forefront, in essence, it seems to be about building a power base, that is, establishing one axis of power within the party through this group. The other is whether it is appropriate for ruling party lawmakers to stage such political pressure campaigns under the banner of withdrawing the president's indictment, even if there is such a political element.

On the latter point, I agree with Representative Lee's criticism. Claiming to remedy the fabricated indictments of the Yoon Sukyeol prosecution by pressuring the Lee Jaemyung prosecution to withdraw the indictment cannot gain legitimacy. They are separate issues. Moreover, once an indictment has been filed, the case has entered criminal procedure. It must be remedied and resolved within judicial procedure, and even if it was a fabricated indictment, that must be proven legally; political assertions do not make it fact. Furthermore, the criminal justice system in the Republic of Korea is designed on the premise that wrongful indictments can occur. That is why the propriety of indictment is reviewed at the investigation and indictment stages, and even after indictment, there are first and second trials, a third trial at the Supreme Court, and even retrial procedures.

If a criminal fabricated indictment has occurred and that can be proven legally, then you appoint a special prosecutor. But will a million-signature campaign and a parliamentary investigation by about 100 ruling party lawmakers legally prove that the indictment was fabricated? It will not. All it does is put pressure on the prosecution to withdraw the indictment. It is a kind of public-opinion warfare, but the question is whether this is what the ruling party should be doing at such a critical moment. In that sense, although writer Rhyu Si-min's comment that they are "crazy" was harsh, I do not think he was wrong. This weakens the legitimacy of the rule of law and the moral foundation of this administration. It could amount to political self-harm. When the reasoning is unclear and forced, it can all collapse in an instant. This is absolutely not the way to serve the president. It is an abnormal loyalty competition.

So Jongsup: The People Power Party has postponed its party name change until after the elections. How do you assess the situation in the People Power Party?

Lee Taegyu: I think postponing the party name change until after the elections is the first thing they have done right in a very long time. When people saw the two shortlisted names, many were simply dumbfounded. Many wondered if this was really the level of competence with which the party handles its affairs, and went through a very frustrating process. When a restaurant is not doing well, you change the chef and the menu so that the food improves. Only on that basis does changing the signboard bring customers back. In my view, if you change nothing and only change the signboard, customers will not return, and that is exactly what the People Power Party's party name change process looked like.

Any party name change should be accompanied by reform measures, but they were trying to change only the signboard without any such reform plan. Who could agree with or relate to that? The party leadership needs to reflect deeply on this. Taking the collapse of the party name change plan as a starting point, I hope they will do things properly this time, but Representative Jang Donghyuk has already laid bare his political identity in a very blunt way.Under such leadership, can any winning agenda or content for change really emerge? Many people are skeptical and deeply concerned.

He is now going in exactly the opposite direction. The public and party members keep giving him chances, but Representative Jang Donghyuk keeps squandering them. The problem is that it is not only his own political future at stake. As an individual, Jang Donghyuk may choose to do that, but as party leader, he cannot continue down that path. Many people are criticizing the People Power Party as a "Galapagos party." It is isolated and trapped by itself, confined to a small group of hardline supporters. If it is to be a mass party, it must represent the general sentiment of the public and the broad currents of the times.To mount even minimal defense in the local elections, I believe everything has to change. I am not saying they must replace the leader, but that they must change their thinking and behavior entirely. Yet while they talk about change, their actions and substance are not changes that lead to victory, but are almost regressive. It is not too late yet.

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So Jongsup: Representative Park, what is your view?

Park Wonseok: In its current state, the People Power Party seems to have entered an irredeemable stage. It appears to have become a political force that has completely lost its resilience.At the press conference on the 20th, when Representative Jang Donghyuk said that only the first trial was over and that martial law was not a coup, I think he made a very clear declaration of "Yoon-again."He used the first-trial verdict as an opportunity to lay bare his true intentions and identity.I do not see this as merely Jang Donghyuk's personal will, but as the collective will of the so-called Yoon-again faction being manifested.The key players here are the incumbent People Power Party lawmakers.

I do not think Representative Jang cares about the local elections. Whatever happens, he intends to cement his grip on party leadership and, even if the local election results are poor, will respond by saying the decision should be left to the party members.Within the People Power Party, there is a pervasive sense of helplessness and self-preservation, and I think extreme selfishness is rampant. Every lawmaker only cares about themselves. There are ten candidates running for Daegu mayor, while there are zero candidates for Gyeonggi governor. For a national party,is that even conceivable?At this point, there is no point in telling Representative Jang Donghyuk to change. His leadership must be repudiated. Lawmakers should resign all their party positions and declare that they will resist until he steps down, but they are not doing that. This is silent collusion; everyone is irresponsibly kicking the can down the road, thinking things will somehow change after the local elections or after some time passes. They will not. The party is almost politically dead.

So Jongsup: The centrist and rational faction within the People Power Party must be agonizing over this.

Lee Taegyu: The intensity of that agony will vary depending on the outcome of the local elections. Many people say President Lee Jaemyung is racing toward the political center, while Representative Jang Donghyuk is racing toward the far-right cliff. There are people who believe they know how this will play out: even if they lose the local elections, as the general election approaches, the Democratic Party will not be able to hold out, and when the public turns away from them at some point, that is when their time will come again. Such sentiments are particularly strong in the TK region.

Because there is no concern for the future of the country or of conservatism, in practice, since industrialization and democratization, the conservatives, like the progressives, have never written a new narrative. They have never seriously tried to craft new discourse. So the question is not just whether they will cut ties with Yoon Sukyeol. Severing ties with Yoon Sukyeol is a matter of common sense. If you have common sense, even a third grader in elementary school could answer that in three seconds. The real question is what they will build beyond Yoon Sukyeol. Even the politicians who oppose Jang Donghyuk have no answer to that. Seoul Mayor Oh Sehoon is not addressing it, and neither is Han Donghoon.

Park Wonseok: Former party leader Han Donghoon is reportedly starting rallies in Daegu this Friday, but I am not sure. As an independent, he is free to move, but I do not know what his plan is. Whether he intends to form a new party or wait until Representative Jang Donghyuk's leadership ends... I do not really understand that political program either.

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